Thursday, June 17, 2010

Intermittent Fasting and Stubborn Body Fat

I have previously hinted that intermittent fasting sidesteps the issues associated with stubborn body fat. Indeed I rarely find any need for advanced strategies to rid my clients of stubborn body fat. I will soon tell you why, but first let me give you some background information to what I'm talking about here.


What is stubborn body fat?

Stubborn body fat refers to areas of the body that hold on to fat the longest. Generally speaking, these areas include the lower abs and lower back in men, and the lower body in women. These areas are damn hard to get lean.

How come these areas are stubborn in the first place? To understand this, let's look at how fat is mobilized (the very short version).

After you eat, insulin and fatty acids are elevated. You are in the fed state and there's zero fat burning going on. Your body is relying completely on glucose oxidation during the hours following the meal.

One way of measuring this is via the respiratory quotient (RQ). An RQ of 1.0 denotes pure carbohydrate metabolism ("storage mode"), while 0.7 denotes pure fat metabolism. To put this into perspective, consider that RQ is 0.95-1.0 for about 1.5-2 hours after a meal, 0.82-0.85 after overnight fasting and 0.72-0.8 after 16 hours of fasting.

As the hours go by and the nutrients from the meal are done being absorbed, RQ drops in conjunction with insulin. There's a shift towards fat burning and mobilization of stored fat. This process is mediated by insulin and blood-borne fatty acids; when levels drop, an energy deficit is "sensed" and catecholamines (adrenaline and nordrenaline) increase.

The catecholamines travel through the blood and bind to receptors on fat cells. A receptor can be thought of as a "lock." Hormones and neurotransmitters are keys that fit into that lock and make something happen. In this case catecholamines trigger fat mobilization by activating hormone sensitive lipase (HSL), which then shuttles the fat out of the cell to be burned off.

Now here's the critical difference between regular fat and stubborn fat: regular fat have a lot of beta-2 receptors in proportion to alpha-2 receptors.

In The Stubborn Fat Solution Lyle McDonald used the analogy of b2-receptors being "accelerators" for fat loss and a2-receptors acting as "breaks" for fat loss. That's the easiest way to think of them without getting too deep into the physiology.

The ratio between b2-receptors and a2-receptors determines how easy it is to facilitate fat loss from one region of the body. "Easy" fat has a high ratio of b2-receptors to a2-receptors, while stubborn fat has a high ratio of a2-receptors to b2-receptors.

One notorious example that Lyle brings up in his book is that women have up to nine times (!) as many a2-receptors as b2-receptors in their hip and thigh fat. Though I can't recall if similar numbers are available for lower ab and lower back fat for men, you can be sure that the a2-receptors outnumber the b2-receptors in these areas as well.



I rarely use fancy strategies for ridding my clients of stubborn body fat. They never need it. It's more or less a linear process all the way down to the shredded state.


Intermittent fasting and stubborn fat loss

How can intermittent fasting then selectively target stubborn body fat more effectively than other diets? Well, to target stubborn body fat we need to activate b2-receptors while deactivating a2-receptors. Intermittent fasting achieves this by the following mechanisms.

1. Fasting increases catecholamine levels.

2. Fasting increases abdominal subcutaneous blood flow, which means that catecholamines will have an easier time reaching those hard-to-get areas.

3. The low insulin level reached during the fast inhibits a2-receptors. A greater time spent in the low insulin state equals a greater time spent in a state where fat can be mobilized from stubborn areas. Now you're probably thinking "why not just go on a low carb diet" to keep insulin low, but keep in mind that triglycerides inhibit HSL in a similar manner as insulin.

4. My research has indicated that the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting. Coupled with high levels of catecholamines, increased blood flow to stubborn regions, and low insulin for a2-receptor inhibition, this time interval is the "golden age" of stubborn fat mobilization.

Let me just explain real quick what I mean by the ideal state of fat burning. Studies have examined free fatty acid (FFA) oxidation from anywhere between the overnight fasted state to three days of fasting. While FFA oxidation increases the longer time you spend in the fasted state, the contribution of fatty acids to whole body fat oxidation changes.

In short-term fasting there's a significant increase in subcutaneous FFA oxidation. That's just a fancy way of saying that you're mainly burning body fat and nothing else. For up to 14-20 hours* after a 600-calorie meal in normal-weight subjects, fat is only mobilized from body fat stores in resting individuals.

* 14-20 hours in a completely sedentary state should easily equal 12-18 hours in real life.


Past this time point, fat burning increases further. That goes without saying. But it's not necessarily the type of fat you're after that you'll be burning. Somewhere in between the 10- and 30-hour time point, the oxidation of intramuscular fat increases greatly, but no increase is seen in subcutaneous fat. Subcutaneous fat simply can't keep up with demand, so you're playing a game of diminishing returns if you push the fast too long. Coupled with the escalating rate of de novo gluconeogenesis, and subsequent risk of muscle catabolism, fasting for too long may not be very conducive for a lean individual seeking optimal lean mass retention while targeting stubborn body fat.



Men usually need to hit single-digit body fat percentage to have good abs, while women have good abdominal definition at around 15% body fat. Above is a picture of natural body fitness champ and intermittent fasting afficionado Kristine Weber.


Science vs real life

One obvious question critically inclined readers should ask themselves is whether special strategies to mobilize stubborn fat is even needed in the first place. After all, people have gotten ripped without intermittent fasting or the strategies laid out in The Stubborn Fat Solution by Lyle McDonald. Is it not just a question of dropping low enough in body fat percentage?

If we compare a traditional calorie deficit of 3500 kcal per week on a conservative diet vs 3500 kcal on an intermittent fasting setup (or with The Stubborn Fat Solution), would there be any difference in regional fat loss assuming all other factors were kept constant? I don't think we'll ever know, so this boils down to relying on theory and practical experience.

My personal experience is that intermittent fasting helps with stubborn fat loss compared to a conservative diet. This little anecdote is obviously riddled with confounders, and maybe even wishful thinking, but if you take a look at some pictures from my younger days (and here), you'll see that I was quite lean during the modelling days. However, I still had some fat covering the lower ab region and never really seemed to lean out well no matter how hard I tried. Sure, I would lose weight when I cut calories, but not from the right areas. I always ended up getting extremely lean legs, arms and shoulders. I also lost a lot of muscle in my desperate attempts to get good abs, but that might just boil down to me dieting like a retard. As you can see in some more recent pics, I don't have those types of problems any more.

Adding to this anecdotal evidence of mine, I have heard similar feedback from clients and blog readers. Intermittent fasting seems very conducive for targeting stubborn body fat. Got a similar experience to report? Let me know.

Content update, June 20th

When is stubborn body fat a problem?


There were a few things that I forgot to cover when I first finished this article. First of all, at what level does stubborn body fat become an issue? Generally speaking, people don't have a good sense of what is "just too fat" and what is a legit body fat percentage for stubborn fat to even start becoming an issue. I've had tons of clients approach me with their "issues with stubborn body fat" when they we're 15% body fat or more.

Stubborn fat is the fat you need to lose for a good four-and-a-half-pack to turn into a six-pack. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 10% is the maximum body fat percentage you need to have reached before this is something you can start concerning yourself with.

Below are a few examples of the level of leanness required to even start thinking about stubborn body fat.








Both of these clients were approximately 10% and the marked areas denote those typically stubborn fat deposits. Note that both of them were quite lean and had good abdominal definition from the navel up. The stubborn fat is located at around the navel and below.





With females the whole lower body is "stubborn." Above is a good example of the different fat pattern seen in men and women. Note the lean midsection and lower back. At the same time the lower body appears quite smooth. If she would have dropped a few more percentage points of body fat, she would have had very visible abs - but her lower body would likely not have gotten much leaner. Even female body fitness competitors rarely come in to stage with "ripped" legs.


Stubborn Fat Strategies

Here are a few strategies that you should consider implementing to target stubborn fat. Keep in mind that your diet needs to be in order first and foremost. You can't throw this into the mix and expect results if your diet is sub par.

1. Intermittent fasting. For the reasons I mentioned earlier.

2. Increase your activity level in the fasted state. Add cardio or whatever else to get your energy expenditure up. A personal favorite of mine is lower intensity and longer duration activities like walking in the 12-16 hour time interval of the fast. Not only is this the "golden age" of subcutaneous fat oxidation, but lower intensity activities selectively use fatty acids to fuel the activity. There are other reasons I favor low intensity over high intensity activities (such as HIIT). They interfere minimally with your performance in the gym and can be done on a daily basis, which is not the case with HIIT.

3. Supplementation. While I have gotten lean without thermogenics and alpha-2 receptor antagonists, such as yohimbine, they can speed up the process.

For starters: Caffeine is a dirt cheap thermogenic that will ramp up catecholamine levels. During the fast add caffeine pills and dose depending on tolerance. If you're not a regular coffee-drinker, you can get pretty wired off 200 mg. If you're a habitual coffee-drinker (like me), it might take up to 600 mg to even get an effect. L-Tyrosine may work synergistically with caffeine so you may consider experimenting with that as well. Personally though, I have never gotten much out of it - though many people swear by it.

For more ambitious supplementation
, add the alpha-2 antagonist yohimbine or a supplement containing yohimbine in addition to caffeine pills. Take the equivalent of 0.2 mg/kg body weight shortly before fasted cardio or during the fast. This works out to 16 mg yohimbine for an 80 kg/175 lbs male if you have pure yohimbine hcl.
Other commercial thermogenics, such as Meltdown, contain 3 mg yohimbine per capsule; so you'd have to take up to 5 capsules to reach similar levels. But proceed with caution:the product says, "Never exceed more than three total capsules daily or in a single dose." Personally, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary with such dosing (>3 capsules), but I need to throw in a disclaimer here lest someone screws himself over. It would be best to start low to assess tolerance. Meltdown contains quite a few other ingredients that might make the effects stronger and more unpredictable versus straight yohimbine hcl (i.e., 5 capsules of Meltdown might be more potent than 15 mg of Y-HCL in terms of stimulatory effect and perhaps side effects).

Important: Keep in mind that insulin negates the effects of yohimbine on alpha 2-receptor inhibition. Always take it in the fasted state and never between meals. Considering the half-life of yohimbine is very short (30 min), you can also experiment with more frequent dosing during the fast. For example, three dosages taken every second hour until your first meal. In that case I would probably not recommend starting with 0.2 mg/kg, since there will be a gradual buildup of the active compound. 0.15 mg/kg is a better starting point for multiple dosages in a relatively short time frame (every second hour).

An 80 kg male could use the following schedule.

7 AM: 12 mg yohimbine.

9 AM: 12 mg yohimbine.

9 AM-10 AM: 45 to 60 min walk.

11 AM: 12 mg yohimbine.

1 PM: Meal one.

Another option: AlphaBurn. Pure yohimbine may lead to feelings of anxiety and even panic attacks in predisposed individuals. A better alternative can be found in Alpha Burn, and other supplements containing rauwolscine, which is a stereoisomer of yohimbine. Reg from Predator Nutrition recently sent me a box of these and I can vouch for it's psychoactive effects not being as rough as pure yohimbine. While it won't make you as jumpy and jittery as yohimbine, it seems to have a pretty potent appetite suppressive effect. If you consider buying this, see my supplement guide to obtain a code, exclusive to Leangains readers, that gets you 5% off any order from Predator Nutrition.

4. Fasted Weight Training. Heavy weight training jacks up catecholamines very high and heavy training in the fasted state creates the most powerful response. Heavy training and fasting are both stressors to which the body responds with increased catecholamine output; in combination it seems the effect is synergistic. How can we combine everything mentioned up to this point and heavy weight training to facilitate stubborn fat loss? Like I've said in the past, I'm not a fan of using weight training as a means to create a calorie deficit. I also do not recommend training completely fasted, since that would be highly counterproductive to the anabolic response. But I've found a way around all this.

Protocol needed: Fasted Training (see the Leangains Guide for details).

We're going to assume that you're at the gym at 10 AM and break your fast at 12-1 PM.

10 AM: Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase.

10-11 AM: Weight Training: I suggest using a setup similar to reverse pyramid training, which is my favored approach. This is a high intensity, low volume setup. Keeping intensity high is key in order to reap the catecholamine-related benefits. Do 2-3 sets of 4-8 reps for compound movements and 1-2 sets of 8-10 reps for assistance movements (curls, triceps work, etc). Do no more than 5 movements per session.

11-12 AM: When you're done, which should be in no more than an hour, insulin (which was temporarily elevated by the pre-workout BCAAs) will be back to fasted baseline again. Immediately take 0.2 mg yohimbine and do 30-45 min of steady state cardio; cycling, treadmill walking at 3-3.5 mph (slight incline optional), brisk walking outside, etc. The yohimbine will rapidly take effect.

12-1 PM: Eat.

5. Carb refeeds. Refeeding on high carb meals, with a low fat content, will boost leptin and kick up hormonal output and metabolic rate a notch. It may sound counter intuitive for those not familiar with this concept, but it may in fact be just what you need to get past a fat loss plateau, or to see fat loss in stubborn areas. Much can be written about this, but Mark Sisson recently wrote an easy layman's guide to carb refeeds that you might want to check out if you need a quick summary of the benefits.

For a more thorough explanation of refeeds and leptin, I urge you to check out Lyle McDonald's excellent series on body weight regulation. There's plenty more on this topic on Lyle's site; just do a search for "refeeds", or "refeeding", and you'll be busy for hours.

If you follow my approach, as I've laid out in the Leangains Guide, you will refeed after every weight training-session.


Keep it simple

As a final note, keep in mind that none of the above mentioned strategies are essential in order to get to your desired level of leanness, assuming that entails a ripped six-pack. I've gotten myself and several clients very lean without supplementation, cardio, and with fed state training.

In the end, getting rid of stubborn fat comes down to patience. There's no "quick fix" solution. Only various strategies that may present some hard-to-define benefits in theory.

When determining what strategies you can use (and this goes for any diet), first look at what you can implement into your daily routine with a minimum of added effort. Don't go out of your way to find advanced strategies that increase the perceived challenge of your diet. That's always a recipe for failure in the long term.

182 comments:

  1. Great post Martin. This is my first week on IF and I can't believe I haven't tried this a while ago. Will keep you posted on results in the next 5 months of myt cut.

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  2. Interesting post, especially about the heightened fat burning at hours 12-18. Thanks for this.

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  3. I have noticed while cutting with Intermittent Fasting that my body recomposition and fatloss is greater than with a diet that is comprised of 4-7 meals throughout the day. But on the flip-side the scale does not move as quick as if I were eating more times throughout the day.

    I will continue to update to you my thoughts on this as my cut gets deeper. So far I am almost 9 weeks into it, and plan on running it for 24-25 weeks. I will have before/after pictures it should be a pretty successful story :)

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  4. Hello Martin, good post as usual. Just wanted to comment on this:

    "Now you're probably thinking "why not just go on a low carb diet" to keep insulin low, but keep in mind that triglycerides inhibit HSL in a similar manner as insulin."

    Besides HSL not being the rate limiting enzyme for TG hydrolisis, the important thing is that the response to fasting is the absence of glucose, not the absence of energy per se. Check out the following:

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/262/5/E631

    "Changes in plasma glucose, free fatty acids, ketone bodies, insulin, and epinephrine concentrations during fasting were the same in both the control and lipid studies."

    The presence of FFA stimulates HSL and other lipases. So even if you eat fat you are not going to inhibit HSL. But nobody eats ONLY fat.

    What im getting at is that the difference between fasting and a keto diet is the presence of PROTEIN, not fat.

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  5. Chino & Layzie,

    Sounds good. Keep me posted.

    Somatotropina,

    Looking at the abstract it seems to go against some other findings in the litterature. I'm gonna have to take a look at the full text. Thanks for the tip.

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  6. Very interesting...Actually been thinking a lot about this and for what it's worth I've also noticed stubborn fat is mobilized with greater ease using leangains.

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  7. Top notch post, Martin!

    These days, I eat until I'm full at every meal 6 days a week. The other day, I fast. And I am in the best shape of my life.

    I think one of the reasons that IF is so much more effective than CR is that it is so much EASIER to fast for one day every week than it is to consciously cut yourself off before you are full 21 times per week.

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  8. Awesome post Martin. I have been following a 16 hour fast and eating whole foods to satiety for two weeks now. I train low frequency high intensity weightlifting and plyometrics (I have been training to dunk a basketball for a while now). I have seen some very solid improvements in performance, productivity during the fast, and some slight body composition improvements.

    I am considering implementing an hour long walk (very low intensity) at the tail end of my fast on rest days. Do you think that this might expedite fat loss on IF? Will this do anything? Would I need to take BCAAs if I was to begin implementing this?

    Keep up the great work. I am a lean gains convert. This stuff is awesome.

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  9. Martin, what are your thoughts on the fact that in some cases of men stubborn fact occurs around the hip(female type) and reverse-there are many women with big bellies and relatively thin legs.I guess it has to do something with the hormones!? I've always had decent to shredded abs all the way,but the but:) and the tights not so impressive.I'm a man:))

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  10. Great post! I definitely notice faster fat loss from stubborn fat depots with IF (your approach). Nice to see there was an explanation for it and not just my imagination running wild:)

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  11. Have you previously discussed #2 in the list before?

    "2. Fasting increases abdominal subcutaneous blood flow..."

    I don't recall seeing this in any older articles.

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  12. I have a question about the fast, When does it really start when u say 12-18 hours after a meal, Is it Right after the meal has been eaten or when the Bowl is empty?

    I dont know if what i have been taught is false, But a doctor in fasting told me that the Fast begins when stomach is empty of all digestibles,

    Thanks for a Superb Blog

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  13. hi All

    I'm using IF,and I'm pretty happy with it.I'll never get back.I'm vegan
    (I eat only fruits,vegetables,and occasionally nuts and seed).I've still have some lower-abs fat,but I can see all my veins on Abs.I'was thinking about one things:main stubborn-fat is also releated at how much muscle mass do you have..

    ciao
    Sandro

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  14. http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-7-51.pdf

    this is a really good read on protein and training. touches on fasting, on whey and casein

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  15. Good stuff Martin!

    I have been thinking about this subject for a while.

    What do you think about fasting + yohimbine? Do you think it has additional benefits regarding stubborn body fat if you stay moderatly active (at work), or even sitting, or do you have to do cardio to burn that extra mobilized fat?

    - Aleksander

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  16. Ben,

    "I am considering implementing an hour long walk (very low intensity) at the tail end of my fast on rest days. Do you think that this might expedite fat loss on IF? Will this do anything? Would I need to take BCAAs if I was to begin implementing this? "

    Yes. No need for BCAAs in that context.

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  17. Nasko,

    "Martin, what are your thoughts on the fact that in some cases of men stubborn fact occurs around the hip(female type) and reverse-there are many women with big bellies and relatively thin legs."

    Sure, there are individual differences related to hormones i.e some men have a more feminine fat pattern. Age changes things as well. Men see more central fat storage and women experience a masculinized fat pattern after menopause. All due to hormones.

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  18. RobC,

    Don't think I have, no.

    Jim,

    After a meal. In this particular study they ate ~600 kcal/53 g protein/52 g cho/20 g fat. Pretty decent meal considering the usual low protein crap often used.

    Anon,

    Yes. I'll add some supplement recs to the post later on.

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  19. Martin, I noticed that you usually recommend the latter part of the fast going well in into mid-day/early afternoon. I was wondering if there's a metabolic advantage to this vs the latter part of the fast occurring during sleep, and breaking it shortly upon waking.

    Thanks, I'm anxiously awaiting your book.

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  20. Curious, really looking forward to continuing with IF as soon as I get back home from Chicago. I've always had a belly and my beer drinking days didn't help so it will be great to finally see what's under there.

    You mentioned how it when switching to IF the stubborn fat came off when compared to traditional approaches. Do you know if that fat creeps back in those places when switching from IF to a traditional CR?

    Eric

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  21. At what % body fat do you have to be in order to be dealing with stubborn issues?

    Sub 10%?

    Sub 8%?

    I just skimmed the article, not sure if it was addressed.

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  22. I'm new to the site, but so far it seems like it's really great stuff. I can really relate, and after trying this IF, it has also seemed to be the holy grail after a couple years of obsessive eating.

    My question is similar to Tasslehoff's: I am thinking that it would work best with my schedule if I eat breakfast at 830 before starting work at 9, and then finishing with a meal at 4:30 for 8 hr window. In your experience, would this be significantly different that eating window approx 10-6? I find that if I don't eat early I'm totally fine, but once I start then I'm more likely to get hungry. Thanks.

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  23. Similar to Manveet question,

    During the morning fast w/ light cardio, will B-receptor stubborn fat be mobilize for use or existing A-receptor fats has the priority?

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  24. What is your opinion on IF and MMA training were one might train multiple times a day sometimes morning and night while other days just afternoon and night?

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  25. You are a genius Martin, looking to start with you later this year.

    Keep the posts coming.

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  26. Awesome post!

    I fast 16 hours a day like you have stated but i do mine from 10a.m to 6 p.m, do you have nay clients that do it like this? I see a lot of people fast until 12 or 1. Even though i am eating throughout the day i still get my fast from 6 pm to 10 am in the morning so this is ok?

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  27. Hello Martin,

    I want to thank you for all the information you provide on IF on this site. I really love the leangains approach.

    Today I bought pure BCAA for fasted workouts. I have a question regarding this. I normally sleep 8 hours, work 8 hours and need about 1 hour for the travalling. So I would only have 7 hours for the feeding window. Would you think it would be smart to break the fast after 16 hours with some fruits(citrus fruit, berries) and then before workout consume some BCAA for protein synthesis? After workout I would have cottage cheese with some carbs and the 2 other meals.

    I would also like to know, because I searched the whole site for some advice on Yohimbine Hcl. When would you advice it to take it? Maybe after 12 hours of the last meal because there is the most fat mobilisation as stated in these researches? What do you think?

    Thanks in Advance,
    Ace

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  28. Hi Martin, from what you say in this post, I would gather that being in the 6-8h feeding window per day zone is best as opposed to Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat recommendations of 24h fasts twice a week as not as much fat would be burned per week and also some fat would come from within the muscle tissue. I find this to be very illuminating.

    Theoretically, if I were to resistence train 3-4 times a week and eat at my BMR of calories but not care if it was fast food or good quality whole foods or the macronutrient breakdown, would I still be able to get down to and maintain below 10% body fat?

    Also, I have a quadriceps strain. In your opinion, what should I do pertaining to my caloric intake? Would increasing it help to accelerate recovery in any way, or can I continue my current caloric deficit? I'm actually eating at my BMR now, aiming to cut down 4% body fat. As for my nutrition, I try to eat as clean as
    possible but pay little attention to the exact macronutrient breakdown of my meals.

    Thanks a lot. I love your blog.

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  29. Awesome content update! Nice to see some "real world" examples of stubborn bodyfat. Thought it was weird that it wasnt adressed in Lyle's book e.g pics of what is and what isnt stubborn fat.

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  30. Tasslehoff,

    "I was wondering if there's a metabolic advantage to this vs the latter part of the fast occurring during sleep, and breaking it shortly upon waking."

    No, this is mainly for behavioral reasons as mentioned in the guide.

    Eek,

    "Do you know if that fat creeps back in those places when switching from IF to a traditional CR?"

    Unlikely (how are you going to gain fat on CR?).

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  31. Manveet,

    As mentioned in the new content update, a legit 10% is the absolute upper number for this to even be an issue.

    Brandon,

    "What is your opinion on IF and MMA training were one might train multiple times a day sometimes morning and night while other days just afternoon and night?"

    Doable, but not very practical in some instances.

    Mark L,

    Yes.

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  32. Clement,

    "Theoretically, if I were to resistence train 3-4 times a week and eat at my BMR of calories but not care if it was fast food or good quality whole foods or the macronutrient breakdown, would I still be able to get down to and maintain below 10% body fat? "

    I think you're confusing BMR and maintenance intake. If you're referring to the latter then my answer is yes.

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  33. Excellent post, Martin... thank you for sharing so generously!

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  34. Great post Martin!
    Just started to follow your blog and found it tremendously enthralling!

    Just started using IF and feel great! Physiologically its to early to say anything (perhaps, more energetic) but psychologically... just perfect! No more worries about eating every hour, more relaxing, more fun!

    By the way, saw you in the gym performing impressive (~270 kg) deadlifts (raw). Never seen anything like it!

    /Johan

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  35. Hey Martin,
    I have been avoiding more than one coffee a day as some say that the cortisol release the caffeine is not good for the body but it seems like you don't see this being a problem. Having a couple of cups of coffee with just a splash of half-n-half throughout my daily fast would make things a lot easier.
    Also, I don't know if you have come across the Insanity DVD workouts but they are basically bodyweight interval movements for 30-45 minutes done 6 days a week. Some days are more intense than others. Do you see any negatives to doing this about 6 days a week? Thanks Martin, great stuff as usual.

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  36. So...What exactly is the disadvantage of doing fasted weight training without the BCAA? Would it inhibit fat loss?

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  37. Great stuff as always, Martin. Just started IFing yesterday, just one question though - I notice in your leangains guide for those who have one preworkout meal (20-25% daily cals) it is set around 3hours before workout.
    Is there a specific reasoning behind this? Will it make negligible difference if one trains 1-2hrs after the meal?

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  38. Amazing, amazing, amazing post, Martin! Thank you for clearing this up. Just one question (below).

    In UD2, Lyle mentioned research showing that high glycogen levels inhibit the activity of CPT - carnitine palmityl transferase, the enzyme that transports FAs across the mitochondrial membrane for oxidation.

    Relating the above paragraph to your blog post, you recommend post-WO carb refeeds. However, if high glycogen levels do indeed exacerbate the stubborn fat problem by inhibiting CPT and frustrating fat transport, wouldn't this nullify the techniques you've outlined to get rid of the stubborn fat? I am mindful of the fact that you've gotten your results while eating this way, so it may be another theory vs. practice issue.

    So, the way I see it is this: yohimbine supplementation and short-term fasting may indeed mobilize stubborn fat, get it into the bloodstream, and then get it into the muscles, but with a low presence of the carnitine shuttle, the liberated FAs will have trouble getting through to the mitochondrial matrix, where beta-oxidation of FAs occurs. What may end up happening is those liberated FAs will be re-stored in the adipocytes.

    Based on your results and the results of your clientele, this may be a moot issue. I was just wondering if keeping glycogen low would be a good idea only toward the final stages of one's leaning phase.

    One caveat to Lyle's recommendation for glycogen to remain low: I read a study showing that while low glycogen prompts greater activity of AMPK and thus greater FA oxidation, the increased oxidation came from IMTG stores, not from subcutaneous fat. You made this distinction in your post and warned of the danger of greater FFM catabolism. So, this may be a case NOT to keep glycogen low if it enzymatically influences preferential oxidation of IMTG as opposed to SC fat, which is what we want.

    Sorry for the rant. I don't know what my question is anymore.

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  39. How much glucose / insulin release is required to negate the positive effects that are seen by fasting? Are we talking sugar free gum and diet coke here, or does it require a significant (50+ calories) to produce enough change to end the benefits?

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  40. How much does it take to eliminate the benefits we get from fasting? Are we talking a couple pieces of sugar free gum and a diet coke, or does it require actual caloric intake (50+ calories)? I want to get all of these benefits, but am really wondering if i need to drop my gum habit. Maybe that is silly, please let me know your thoughts.

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  41. Hi Martin,

    Found my way here from Mark Sisson's site having read his guide to carb refeeding. This is great stuff. I've decided to follow your IF method and reintroduce some carbs after training having avoided them for the last 10 weeks. Been stuck on a plateau for the last three weeks so am prepared to try anything.

    One question which I hope won't sound incredibly stupid. You advise "a minimum of 1 g/kg body weight or 0.45 g/lb of predominantly starch-based carbs is a rough guideline for post-workout meals following training sessions that deplete a fair amount of glycogen". At my weight of 140lbs, that means 63 grams of carbs. Taking say a potato as an example, do you mean 63 grams of potato or 63 grams of carb content? I ask because 63 grams of potato has 12.7 carbs (according to UK Fitday equivalent Weightlossresources). To eat 63 grams of carb content means I'd need to eat about 300 grams of potato!

    Would appreciate if anyone on here has an answer to this question. Thrilled to have found this site.

    ReplyDelete
  42. And just one other question. Do you consider carbs necessary following fairly low level cardio i.e. 45 minutes to an hour in the 65% to max 85% of max heart rate? Or is it just after a strength training session?

    ReplyDelete
  43. what are the effects of following leangains and working out fasted without taking BCAAs?

    i eat between 7pm-10pm everyday and workout around 1pm everyday.

    also, what is considered a glycogen depleting workout. i am female, and i do kettlebell workouts but they only last about 20 mins and then walk afterwards. would i need any carbohydrates post workout when i break my fast?

    one last thing, if i workout at 1pm and eat at 7pm is my body okay between workout and staying fasted until 7?

    ReplyDelete
  44. @ bbq

    'Taking say a potato as an example, do you mean 63 grams of potato or 63 grams of carb content?'

    It's 63 g of carbs. It's not a stupid question, understandably you've been baffled by the volume of food you'd have to consume if you're not used to carb refeeds.

    I weigh around 154 lbs, and my post workout meal often breaks the 2000 kcal mark, with at least 60% from carbs (so something like 300 grams of CHO minimum). Make no mistake, it's a massive meal.

    I don't know your BF% (I'm somewhere between 7 and 8 %) or the structure of your workout (mine is short and very intense) so I can't say how much you should be getting in, but those 300 grams of potato shouldn't be a problem I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Thank you for that info Patrick.

    My BF% would be a multiple of yours. Too embarrassed to say what it is. I've never had it measured properly - just go according to my hip measurement. My excuse is that I'm female and at a particular stage of life where it sometimes feels like a losing battle. I do cardio (a la Mark Sissons and the programme on my Polar HRM) 4 to 5 days a week. I'd started weights but noted Lyle McDonald's advice not to until I'd dropped my BF% to a particular level.

    My question re carbs did not really relate to refeeds, just the amount of carbs you should eat following a workout. Subsequently I read an interview with Martin where he seemed to say that carbs in the form of fruit would be more appropriate for women. That feels right. Much as I love potatoes, I feel they were part of my problem for a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  46. @bbq

    Listen to Patrick. It's 63g of carbs, 300 grams of potatoes. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by saying that sounds like an absolute minimum to me. Mine is 140g of carbs and I'm 165lbs @ ~10%.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @bbq

    Well, Martin will have to weigh in on this, but I think he generally dislikes cardio as a means to achieve caloric deficit, if that's why you're doing it.

    According to leangains the post workout meal IS a 'mini' carb refeed of sorts to support anabolism and replenish glycogen stores in muscles, since on rest days carbs are to be kept relatively low and the workouts are intense. The amount would then depend on your weight, BF% and workout.

    As I recall it, the only cardio would be an hour of brisk walking nearing the end of the fast on rest days.

    I wouldn't know how to answer female-specific questions, but I eat a fair amount of fruit in my PWO meal anyway. Whether potatoes (or any other food item for that matter) would be problem depends solely on total calories. You won't magically gain fat by eating potatoes if you're not in a caloric surplus. Some foods might cause water retention though, but excess waterweight should drop after a few low carb days.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Just wanted to say thanks for this kick-ass post. Keep up the great work, I'm really enjoying your blog...my fav by far:)

    ReplyDelete
  49. Thanks again Patrick.

    I suppose I started doing cardio a long time ago in the belief that it would help shift the fat. In combination with watching calories. The theory of low level cardio - 60%-75% of max HRM, the so called 'fat burning zone'. Then moved on to including sprints or intervals. Intervals as part of low level cardio and now sprints one day a week. It worked but only to the extent of losing 14 lbs over a period of time that was just too long for me.

    I always felt that strength straining would be far more effective in achieving fat loss but had that fear of demotivation if I saw the pounds going up rather than down on the scale (even if it was muscle rather than fat). Then saw what Lyle McDonald had to say about it:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html

    1. If you’re above 15% body fat (about 24-27% for women), diet first. If you can get to the 10-12% (19-24%) body fat range or so, I think you’ll be in an overall better position to gain mass. Trying to get super lean will probably end up screwing you in the long run because your body will be primed to put back fat on (and most other physiological systems are screwed up as well) when you get super lean.
    2. After finishing your diet, regardless of how lean you get, take 2 weeks to eat at roughly maintenance calorie levels before starting your mass gaining phase. The reason has to do with the physiological adaptations to dieting described briefly above. Although you can’t reverse all of them short of getting fat again (or fixing the problem pharmaceutically), 2 weeks at maintenance, which by definition should be higher calories than you were eating on your diet, will help to normalize some of them. Leptin, thyroid, SNS output should improve a bit, along with other hormones, putting you in a better place to gain mass without super excessive fat gain. Make sure to get at least 100 grams of carbs/day or more during this phase so that thyroid will come back up.
    3. Only try to add mass/bulk until you hit the top end body fat percentage listed in #1 above. So that’s about 15% body fat for men and 24-27% body fat for women. What this would mean in practice is that you diet to 10-12% body fat for men (22-24% for women), eat at maintenance for two weeks to try and normalize things, and then add mass until you hit 15% body fat for men (22-24% for women) and then diet back down. Over a number of cycles, you should be able to increase your muscle mass while keeping body fat under control.


    I'm at 32% BF (according to my hip measurement) so having started strength training, I'm now not sure if I should continue with it until I reduce that percentage.

    Anonymous female on here asked much the same question as I was asking. Are carbs PWO necessary if the workout is low level cardio rather than strength training? I'm following a mainly low carb/paleo way of eating.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Johan,

    "By the way, saw you in the gym performing impressive (~270 kg) deadlifts (raw). Never seen anything like it! "

    Cool. It's a small world. Come by and say hi next time.

    Mark,

    "I have been avoiding more than one coffee a day as some say that the cortisol release the caffeine is not good for the body but it seems like you don't see this being a problem."

    Don't take diet advice from hippies. Coffee is great. Habitual coffee-drinkers = higher metabolisms. On top of that, coffee may have other health benefits such as reducing risk of diabetes and being neuroprotective (i.e lowers risk of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's).

    Not familiar with Insanity, but I'm not a fan of body weight interval training.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Jon,

    Read this -

    http://leangains.blogspot.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html

    Anon,

    "I notice in your leangains guide for those who have one preworkout meal (20-25% daily cals) it is set around 3hours before workout.
    Is there a specific reasoning behind this?"

    Ain't too comfortable training too close to meals.

    "Will it make negligible difference if one trains 1-2hrs after the meal?"

    That's fine.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anon,

    "I was just wondering if keeping glycogen low would be a good idea only toward the final stages of one's leaning phase."

    No, my clients do regular post-workout carb loads all the way to the end/the shredded state.

    Chris,

    "How much glucose / insulin release is required to negate the positive effects that are seen by fasting? "

    Go read the guide. Dose-response.

    ReplyDelete
  53. bbq,

    Patrick answered your question.

    Anon,

    "what are the effects of following leangains and working out fasted without taking BCAAs?"

    You'll be missing out on part of the anabolic response to the workout. So don't be a dumbass about this. Eat some protein pre-workout regardless of your goals.

    Some reading:

    http://leangains.blogspot.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html

    http://leangains.blogspot.com/2009/12/pre-workout-protein-boosts-metabolism.html

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anon,

    "i eat between 7pm-10pm everyday and workout around 1pm everyday."

    That sounds very sub par if you're going 6 hrs without aminos. I hope you're using the Early fasted training protocol.

    1 pm/ pre-wo 10 g BCAA

    3 pm 10 g BCAA

    5 pm 10 g BCAA

    "also, what is considered a glycogen depleting workout. i am female, and i do kettlebell workouts but they only last about 20 mins and then walk afterwards. would i need any carbohydrates post workout when i break my fast?"

    Yes.

    "one last thing, if i workout at 1pm and eat at 7pm is my body okay between workout and staying fasted until 7?"

    With BCAAs in your bloodstream, yes. If you want to reap max benefits from your workout that is.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Thank you for your reply Martin. Following up the coffee question in relation to cream in the coffee. I remember you saying one time that cream/milk in coffee won't affect the fasting period as long as the calories are under 50. My question is how much time should be between each coffee to avoid coming out of the fast? Essentially is it OK to have 2 tbsp of half-and-half (40 calories) at 8:00 and then have the same amount at about 12:00? This probably doesn't make a difference but thought I'd run it by you. Thanks for your help. By the way, I tend to agree with you on bodyweight interval training, it's fun but it just destroys me.

    ReplyDelete
  56. @ bbq
    regarding your question about whether you should discontinue weight training per Lyles recommendations. I think you may be misinterpreting his advice.

    The way I interpret it is that he is recommending that you get your body fat down to 10-12Male/22-24Female before beginning a MASS BUILDING PHASE.

    Adding in some weights to your regimen won't necessarily add mass, especially if you are dieting. On the contrary, keeping in some strength training will help you to maintain lean body mass which will make you look better once you are lean and will keep your metabolism higher in the future.

    please correct me if I missed the mark on Lyles comments.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Are estrogen containing meats and foods really a contributing factor to stubborn fat like this dude suggests? Because I eat lots and lots of chicken that are enhanced with hormones (because it's a lot cheaper), and I'm wondering if this will have any affect with progress. Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc7wCuACzTs

    ReplyDelete
  58. Martin,

    "You'll be missing out on part of the anabolic response to the workout. So don't be a dumbass about this. Eat some protein pre-workout regardless of your goals. "

    So is there a anabolic response, even w/o the BCAA or protein pre-workout beforehand?

    ReplyDelete
  59. @ PJ

    Thanks for that. I think you're right that I misinterpreted Lyle's advice. So I'm sticking with weight training. I'm using dumbells and concentrating on lunges, squats, deadlifts and bench flyes. Would appreciate direction to a good link on weight training specifically for women. Should you mix it up or stick with the same movements to try and perfect them?

    I'm happier than ever that I found Martin's site. I was stuck at the same weight for three weeks up until last weekend. Then went away for the weekend and put on 2 further pounds. Started IF at the beginning of the week and as of today have lost three pounds! Reached the lowest weight I've been in years.

    Thanks Martin!

    ReplyDelete
  60. Meant to add in that last comment that during the weekend away, I ate more carbs than I had for weeks so it looks like the carb refeed worked along with IF.

    ReplyDelete
  61. "Are estrogen containing meats and foods really a contributing factor to stubborn fat like this dude suggests? Because I eat lots and lots of chicken that are enhanced with hormones (because it's a lot cheaper), and I'm wondering if this will have any affect with progress. Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc7wCuACzTs"

    Ori is one of those Hippies, who conveniently ignores research should it not agree with his opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hi Martin, thanks for the excellent info. I am incorporating the 16/8 IF and can see results already.

    I have a question about this section: "Fasting increases abdominal subcutaneous blood flow, which means that catecholamines will have an easier time reaching those hard-to-get areas."

    My question: Couldn't blood flow increase also be generated by a higher temperature in that region of the body, lending some credence to the rubber "fat belts" for spot reduction that I've seen being pushed on late night TV? According to Tom Venuto, these belts at most only cause water weight loss.

    My line of thought is that in conjunction with calorie restriction, the belt should increase loss of fat in that area.

    Your thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  63. To the post made by Anonymous above regarding a higher body temperature in the midsection following a period of fasting:

    I experience this all the time in the abdominal, oblique, lower back, and thigh region during the fast. The sensation of heat is more profound following YC.

    I agree with you that this may be reflective of increased vasodilation in these regions. I also have this whacky theory that the higher the temperature in this region of the body, the more likely it is that all saturated fats in the adipocytes are in the liquid phase, easing mobilization into the bloodstream (whether or not it is relevant, I haven't seen any research describing the physical makeup of saturated fatty acids at body temperature). SFAs are solid at 72 Fahrenheit (room temp). Is 98.5 Fahrenheit high enough to completely melt it all? Rhetorical question. No reply requested.

    ReplyDelete
  64. I follow a paleo diet and am finding it difficult to eat enough carbs after a workout. I am female and get full very quickly when I eat carbs, always have. In this case, is it better to settle for the approx. 40 grams of fruit/starchy veg carbs I can get in (I weigh 140#), or should I throw some sugar on something just to get my carbs up to 60-70?

    ReplyDelete
  65. Mark,

    <50 kcal total (milk etc) during the fast, split however you want, is ok.

    Anon,

    The second I saw Ori in that clip I shut it down. The answer to your question is no.

    Sonny,

    Yes, kind of. The body can recycle aminos for protein synthesis even when fasted (protein breakdown -> new aminos -> used in synthesis), but this ends up being a zero sum equation if you do not provide aminos via external means.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anon,

    "My question: Couldn't blood flow increase also be generated by a higher temperature in that region of the body, lending some credence to the rubber "fat belts" for spot reduction that I've seen being pushed on late night TV? According to Tom Venuto, these belts at most only cause water weight loss."

    Maybe. The irony is that no one buying those belts would be lean enough to derive any real benefits from them.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anon,

    I don't know what your goals are, but 40 grams may be sufficient for a 140 lbs female not doing anything too crazy in the gym.

    ReplyDelete
  68. "Yes, kind of. The body can recycle aminos for protein synthesis even when fasted (protein breakdown -> new aminos -> used in synthesis), but this ends up being a zero sum equation if you do not provide aminos via external means."

    @Martin

    1. Were these results from a study & can I get link for it?

    2. Being zero sum, is this theory? I can basically progress forward or backward, if I don't take a pre workout protein meal?

    3. Does timing of PWO meal assist w/ net protein synthesis or results come up zero, due to lack of protein pre workout?

    ReplyDelete
  69. 1. A few different studies, can't recall which ones offhand. Look into the work of Stuart Phillips.

    2. The gist of it is this: if you don't get some aminos into your bloodstream around your workout, protein synthesis and breakdowns basically cancel each other out. Some studies show a negative protein balance. When you eat, protein balance turns positive again. By having aminos available around workout time, you'll be getting more hours in a protein positive state, which will favor muscle growth in the long term.

    3. Question is answered above.

    ReplyDelete
  70. That's some very interesting stuff Martin. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Thanks for the response Martin, I appreciate it.

    ReplyDelete
  72. What do you think of topical yohimbine for problem areas? I have heard these generally cause far less of the ill effects those sensitive to yohimbine encounter. There are some really expensive mixtures online, but with some powdered yohimbine hcl and a mg sensitive scale, it would be pretty easy to make your own.

    ReplyDelete
  73. great article, enjoyable and informative.

    the timing fits nicely as well. right now i have entered the final stage of my fat loss and based on your article changed my approach somewhat. i don't measure bodyfat levels and don't care about them, as i base my diet on my visual appearance and overall feeling of well-being. or not so-well-being, as i was feeling quite shitty lately due to being aggressive in my deficit, because i could see the lower part of my abdominals finally getting rid of the last stubborn parts of fat.

    now, i've lowered my deficit to 2000 kcal per week, cycling calories and carbs and doing refeeds after training sessions.

    so, thanks for the article, it might has saved me from messing up my diet by being impatient and stupid ;)

    ReplyDelete
  74. Cubby,

    Last time I checked, it didn't seem to do much.

    Moritz,

    Great, I'm glad to hear it.

    ReplyDelete
  75. I actually tried some yohimbine mixed in with lotion this morning. I didn't use any coffee, so I could differentiate the effects. I felt a strong buzz that lasted all morning, which felt very different from oral yohimbine. That doesn't mean it is necessarily doing what it is supposed to, though. I'll mess with it a little longer and see if it makes any difference.

    ReplyDelete
  76. martin.
    love the blogg duud. need more pics though, best physique ever. MORE PICS ! :D

    ReplyDelete
  77. Have you done any research on the effect on high levels of coffee? Some "health people" love it, others hate it.

    ReplyDelete
  78. After reading a few days on this blog I think I understand the getting lean part (fasting = cutting calories, therefore exercise = burning fat and maintaining muscle). The part I'm still not sure about is the gaining. I'm pretty tall (6'5") and I've always been able to lose 'weight' and get thin, but I seem to lose muscle also. Basically, I become skinny fat. So my question is; when am I anabolic (that means building muscle right?)? I don't want to be a 32 waist at my height, I want to be thick with low body fat (maybe a 34 waist lol). Right now I have more body fat than I want, yet I have larger muscles than usual from working out. When I cut my calories, I lose the muscle with it. Any advice is much appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
  79. @Ty:

    Basic Principle for cutting:

    Training:
    - maintain (or if possible increase) intensity in the weight room
    - lower the volume (number of sets) to make this possible/easier and you might even lower the frequency of going to the gym

    read:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

    Diet:
    - enough protein
    - kcal deficit
    (-veggies, minerals etc. for health and satiety)
    - carb refeeds (more frequent, the leaner you get) (few people can do without them)

    This of course assumes, that you are using a decent training program for the natural lifter AND can perform the lifts properly.
    (Look around this site too, for an easy introduction: http://jcdfitness.com/2010/06/hypertrophy-training-rules-to-live-by-when-muscle-hypertrophy-is-your-goal/ )

    -Dom

    ReplyDelete
  80. Mushin,

    Since caffeine stimulates epinephrine, which affects fat mobilization and metabolic rate, it would also lower leptin levels. This is simply by virtue of increasing energy expenditure - a drop in leptin is unavoidable in such an instance (much like a temporary drop in leptin is unavoidable whenever an acute energy deficit is sensed or when fat is lost).

    ReplyDelete
  81. Martin, need dosage help on the alpha burn. how much and how frequently should i be taking this throughout the day?

    thanks,
    roland

    ReplyDelete
  82. Martin,
    Excellent post. So many good insights here. Eat Stop Eat has really helped me lose a lot of fat and now I'm ready to take the next step to lose a little more of the stubborn lower ab fat. Thanks for the tips.
    Dave

    ReplyDelete
  83. Martin, thank you so much. Wonderful content to add to my already growing knowledge about fasting and especially that stubborn stuff.

    That photo of the woman with lean abs and not-so-lean legs is both unsuprising and heartwrenching. I know how that feels!

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anon,

    Start at two caps (one if you're paranoid about sides), same dosing schedule as yohimbine.

    Andrea,

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  85. OK, very clear story Martin. Will surely be helpful to a lot of desperate women and men who lost weight but not the last layer. I wrote the reciprocal post about why people (without the intermittent fasting) get fat HERE and not THERE. You can find it here http://bit.ly/dlfxqj VBR Hans

    ReplyDelete
  86. Martin

    Im about 6-7% BF really trying to get rid of the last fat. Im on a IF-diet.

    How often do you think I need to carb-refeed? Once a week? Should I cut protein and fat calories in favour of the extra carbs that day, or should this day be a maintain or even more caloriewise?

    Thanks for your wonderful work!

    ReplyDelete
  87. Great post, really want to try IF now that I read so much about it.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Can you take Yohimbine + BCAA together pre and post workout (on empty stomach)?

    ReplyDelete
  89. are you taking yohimbine and bcaa everyday?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anon,

    "Can you take Yohimbine + BCAA together pre and post workout (on empty stomach)?"

    You need to read the article again. I made it quite clear how to combine them.

    Anon,

    "are you taking yohimbine and bcaa everyday?"

    No, I take BCAA before fasted training and that's it. No point in taking yohimbine just for shits and giggles.

    ReplyDelete
  91. thanx for the reply

    but are you always training fasted though?

    ReplyDelete
  92. I tend to train fasted or with one pre-workout meal. Depends on my schedule.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Does BCAA help your libido at all?

    Is it your favorite supplement?

    ReplyDelete
  94. Thanks for the post Martin. Actually, thank you for all the posts and the website. I love it. I just started the IF approach to eating about 2 weeks ago and have found it liberating. My training state is more consistent and I'm feeling great! Keep up the good work!

    ReplyDelete
  95. Lean gains is great

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  96. Hey Martin,

    Love your blog. I briefly tried IF after reading ESE but soon fell off the wagon. My aim is to get my BF% to 15 (I'm probably 19 or 20% at the minute). I like the idea of a 16 hour fast followed by 8 hour window to eat. I also find that eating regularly makes me more hungry and I am convinced that I will get good results with IF, if I don't over compensate after the fast LOL

    Anyway I jsut though I'd tell you your articles are very well written and I look forward to reading your book.

    I have a fitness blog, where I post free workouts and some nutrition stuff too.

    Check it out if you get time. http://myomytv.com

    Keep up the good work.

    Marianne

    PS, I am following you on Twitter and Facebook ... I promise I'm not a stalker LOL

    ReplyDelete
  97. concerning yohimbine protocol. Isn't it too much - 3x12mg for an 80kg person? Lyle (sorry) mentiones, 0,2mg/kgBW should be a daily dose...it makes appr 3x5mg for the person.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Lyle recommends that as a single dose, not spread out.

    Studies have used 40 mg/day with no ill effects.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Dear Martin,

    Thanks for a great site and all the effort you put into maintaining it.

    Would taking a short-acting b2 adrenergic agonist e.g. salbutamol in the morning at 6-8am short-change any benefits of fast?

    On the other hand, can this actually enhance fat-loss whilst preserving lean mass?

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  100. "Would taking a short-acting b2 adrenergic agonist e.g. salbutamol in the morning at 6-8am short-change any benefits of fast?"

    No

    "On the other hand, can this actually enhance fat-loss whilst preserving lean mass?"

    Yes

    ReplyDelete
  101. Thanks for your quick reply Martin!

    I was just wondering if it would interfere with natural cathecholamine output due to negative feedack at receptor level....

    ReplyDelete
  102. Hi Martin, what you think about the Warrior Diet? would u suggest any tweak?

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  103. What u think is better the 16~18 hours fasting or "The Rapid Fat Loss" program?

    ReplyDelete
  104. My approach is superior to the warrior diet in every regard so I suggest you just do that.

    As for Leangains vs RFL that obviously depends on your goals. You could combine the two, as many have done.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Hi!

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    Well, my regular days looks like this:

    workout days: 3~4
    8AM : workout and I take some BCAA through the day and I start my meals at 6PM and ending at 10PM

    non workouts days:
    light jog (i do that just to improve my stamina but if theres a better exercise to stamina improvment i would like to know! hehe) meals 6~10 PM too

    and one cheat meal at the weekend with friends (pasta, bread all those carbs high GL/GI :P)

    my eat window looks bad?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Your eating window is only 4 hrs but if that's the way you wanna do it, go ahead.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Also, with the yohimbine/alphaburn protocol there seems to be water retention which could take a few weeks to dissipate. just speaking from my experience.

    ReplyDelete
  108. A few weeks? A few days more like it.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Dear Martin,

    I see your recommendation for 10 g of BCAAs prior to training everywhere. My question is: should that dosage be adjusted to any parameter such as fat free body mass, training intensity, or something else? Or is 10 g a workable cookie-cutter solution for all body types and intensity levels?

    Thanks for LeanGains, BTW. Both my wife and I love it.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Interesting reading. When you talk about 16 hour fast, does this mean every day, once a week, twice a week? Can/should this be adapted as a longterm lifestyle?

    Thanks,
    Matti

    ReplyDelete
  111. Yes.

    Read

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

    ReplyDelete
  112. Martin, I usually fast overnight and skip breakfast. But when I wake up at the end of my fast.. say eat last at 4pm, wake up at 8am, I have a ton of energy. I don't even need my coffe.

    Is there a scientific explanation for this. I would love to know if there is a certain hormone or something that causes this feeling.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Yeah, it's the catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline) that gives you that wired feeling.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Awesome blog Martin.
    I've struggled in years past achieving more than just a '4-pack'.
    This year is my first stint of IF and i think by Xmas time, the 6-pack will be there.

    I wish id stumbled upon this technique earlier. It's so much easier to maintain over the long haul. That's coming from someone who had success with carb-cycling, but could never keep it up over a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Curious as to why you recommend taking Y then going straight into cardio.

    Isnt there some amount of digestion time?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Hello, I have been enjoying your site. I am 5'7 male 55 years old and 155 lbs. I have been on Fast-5 for a couple months. I lift weights some and have lost over ten pounds to get to this weight. My abs are not showing at 155 # at all while the last time I lost weight a few years ago they started to show at this weight and that time I was not even lifting, but just doing heavyhands training while walking some (not that much). I may have been doing chins and dips. Now I do some deads and squats along with my chins and dips. I am thinking that your plan of an eight hour eating window might be better but don't know what the difference would be? I like this diet because experience has shown me that eating breakfast just makes me hungry again at 8:30AM, so its not too hard for me to do the fast-5. Of course doing fast-8 would be easier because then I could have something before dinner. When I have been excruciatingly hungry I have had peanuts and I think it might be psychological I don't know but it seems to carry me, but then I feel funny about not doing the fast. Nevertheless I am losing weight.

    So I am curious what would be the difference eating in an eight hour window vs. a 5 hour one and whether I would tend to get ripped more easily with less time fasting?

    Thanks,

    Paul C.

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  117. Continued from my last post. It dawned on me that even though I have permitted myself a five hour window from 5-10 at night, I don't even use the five hours but just eat supper at 5 and then have maybe some cottage cheese a little later at 7 or 8 at night so I have been using about a 3 hour window. Also, when I have cheated, by eating a lunch, which effectively gave me a longer window because I have lunch at 12 and dinner at 6, I still lost weight.

    The time I lost weight three years ago and could see my abs (barely), I was not doing fasting but instead I ate for breakfast of two fried eggs or an omelet, and for lunch I had either a double cheeseburger from Macdonalds or Wendies for a dollar, I ate peanuts if I needed to if I felt starving, and for dinner I didn't overeat. When I did that diet, I lost slower than using the intermittent fasting just eating dinner. The thing is that even without as much weight training, I had lower body fat at this weight of 155 that I am at now so I think the reason for my not being able to see my abs now is that I have been hungrier during my weight loss and I lost it a lot faster. So now I am thinking it still makes no sense to me to eat breakfast if I am not hungry, but I may go back to having my double cheeseburger or wendies small chili for lunch ( it costs me a buck and I get out of the office) and then have dinner at six so basically I have eating within about seven hours. To me this seems like a good compromise and I may get stronger so that I will have less bodyfat like the last time I lost weight.

    I still don't know what my goal should be. People are now commenting negatively about my weight loss but if I get some smaller clothes then I don't think it looks so bad. Today I taped my waist and hips and had 36 inch hips and 33 waist relaxed but 32 with posture and sucked in a little. This seems reasonable for a middle aged guy. I look thinner than anybody but the skinny guys and I am not skinny. At 5'7 I and with my small wrists I was thinking 147 might be optimal but at 155 I seem pretty good. I would like to see my abs though.



    I will say that my downfall whenever I have lost weight has been drinking because it does something in my brain which makes me want to eat some carbs to ease it... it can tend to destroy discipline. It is better on the fast five than on a regular diet though because my calories were so restricted that I still didn't gain weight even with about six or eight whiskeys. I intend to use those drinking tips I saw posted on the other part of the site.

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  118. Continued from my last post. It dawned on me that even though I have permitted myself a five hour window from 5-10 at night, I don't even use the five hours but just eat supper at 5 and then have maybe some cottage cheese a little later at 7 or 8 at night so I have been using about a 3 hour window. Also, when I have cheated, by eating a lunch, which effectively gave me a longer window because I have lunch at 12 and dinner at 6, I still lost weight.

    The time I lost weight three years ago and could see my abs (barely), I was not doing fasting but instead I ate for breakfast of two fried eggs or an omelet, and for lunch I had either a double cheeseburger from Macdonalds or Wendies for a dollar, I ate peanuts if I needed to if I felt starving, and for dinner I didn't overeat. When I did that diet, I lost slower than using the intermittent fasting just eating dinner. The thing is that even without as much weight training, I had lower body fat at this weight of 155 that I am at now so I think the reason for my not being able to see my abs now is that I have been hungrier during my weight loss and I lost it a lot faster. So now I am thinking it still makes no sense to me to eat breakfast if I am not hungry, but I may go back to having my double cheeseburger or wendies small chili for lunch ( it costs me a buck and I get out of the office) and then have dinner at six so basically I have eating within about seven hours. To me this seems like a good compromise and I may get stronger so that I will have less bodyfat like the last time I lost weight.

    I still don't know what my goal should be. People are now commenting negatively about my weight loss but if I get some smaller clothes then I don't think it looks so bad. Today I taped my waist and hips and had 36 inch hips and 33 waist relaxed but 32 with posture and sucked in a little. This seems reasonable for a middle aged guy. I look thinner than anybody but the skinny guys and I am not skinny. At 5'7 I and with my small wrists I was thinking 147 might be optimal but at 155 I seem pretty good. I would like to see my abs though.

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  119. Update on this. OK now I am bedazzled. I decided to go onto a longer window and the first day just had two eggs for breakfast and had a wendy's chili for lunch and a regular dinner followed by the next day skipping breakfast and having a large wendy's chili for lunch and salted nuts in the afternoon, salmon cakes, tuna and cottage cheese and triscuits for dinner and a few shots of whiskey.... So I drank a lot of water to ward of the possibility of having a headache... crappy night sleep as usual if I drink just a little. I sleep well if I don't drink or drink a lot. So anyways, I get up this morning and the scale (which I believe is pretty good and accurate as it is digital and all) reads a gain of 5 lbs since yesterday! My conclusion on this is that what I thought was weight loss was to a large extent not having so much food in the gut and water loss in the muscles etc. This is weird because I broke 160 quite a few weeks ago. Then broke 155 last week and have been hanging out here and now this morning the scale shows 159.6 while yesterday it was 154.6. I think I am going to stop thinking too much about this. Its not like I ate a cake yesterday or anything. If I eat too little, evidently I lose a lot of water!

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  120. Got a question, ask it, don't write a damn book.

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  121. Hi Martin,

    Thanks for this very usefull blog. I following your schedule since a few months.

    I understood that we can't combine Yohimbine+BCAA.
    In my rest days, I use to run during 1 hour, so I took 10g BCAA just before to reduce catabolism.

    As I would like to introduce Alpha Burn, can I suppress BCAA? Does the catabolism will occur?

    great if you have enough time to answer

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  122. Hi Martin! I just found this place some days ago and i must say it's an absolutley amazing thing you got going here, thanks a million!

    I have a question about walking during the 12-16 hours fasted state period. Is there a limit for how long that low intensity walk should be? Can the walk be as long as for example the last 3 hours of the fasted state or would that be pushing it?

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  123. When fasting from the evening till say 1pm, when i woke up, would it be ok, to have some psyllium husk in some water to keep hunger pangs away?

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  124. Martin -- I love your website. So many "trainers" make all kinds of claims and never back them up with research. I like that you reference your facts.

    Question: I usually fast from 9 p.m. til noon or 1. I am always hungry during the fast. I know most people talk about no hunger and lots of energy, but I've not experienced that. I've tried extending the fast, but the hunger pangs don't leave. Do you know of possible reasons for this or how I can make my body comfortable with fasting? Or is it normal?

    Thanks!

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  125. Dude.. this shit is so complicated and boring to read. Is there any way you could just make a simple list??? What the hell.. it's like I have to read a novel.

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  126. Thanks for all the good info. I am a 5'9 female, 140 lbs. trying to trim down just 3-4 lbs (its really just in the thigh area, no hips to speak of and slender with some muscle definition everywhere else). I find its creppily easy to eat just 1000-1200 calories a day, given plenty of protein at about 150 -175 grams, which I have been doing for this whole week along with my normal 18-23 hours of fasting and fasted (pretty moderate) training. But, in the back of my head is a little voice stressing that "its not enough" or "my metabolism will compensate for the lack of calories by slowing down." It would be really great to hear what you think about how we know what "too low" is. I always feel like I'm teetering exactly between "too many calories for loss" and "too few for loss," not knowing which direction to go.

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  127. I'm currently under 10% bf (9% last time I checked a few months ago) and am very lean. If it wasn't for the stubborn lower ab fat, I'd be VERY satisfied with my body right now. But it just won't go away, which is why I'm starting IF this week.

    My question is though is whether I should approach IF with a cut or bulk? Like I said, I'm very lean to the point that I'm for sure under 10% bf, but I want to get SHREDDED abs. Should I cut or bulk with IF?

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  128. Martin - thanks for the information. Great stuff. 3 questions for you:

    1. I'm one of those afternoon weight lifters - what BCAA stack would you recommend? (I want to make sure I'm getting everything I need)

    2. I saw you quote the 10g figure for BCAA supplementation every 3 hours. Can you give me some perspective on when I would up or lower the dose. I.e. is the 10g dosage for a very high intensity workout, or would that be something more like 15g, 10 being more of an average workout.

    3. If you don't mind could you explain why BCAA's are needed but not actual calorie protein? I'm confused why the body suffers growth wise after lifting without protein and BCAA's, but if you get the BCAA's in it seems to be ok?

    4. Didn't see your mention Ephedra. Any thoughts?

    Thanks a ton man.

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  129. BCAA and Insulin; I found this study:
    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P20

    Claiming:

    "At a dosage of 120 mg/kg of bodyweight, it appears that BCAA supplementation does not increase serum insulin values to a greater extent than an acute bout of resistance exercise alone."

    Its almost 10g of BCAA, same as you recommend Martin. So what are your thoughts on this!? Maybe it is possilbe to take yohombine combined with BCAA, for added benefit in training sessions!?

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  130. Hi Martin,

    Was wondering if I can tweak the IF routine abit by having spinach or eggs in the morning? I have gastric problems and am worried that IF may trigger it.

    neoxinfang@gmail.com

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  132. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  133. Is 3o mins in threadmill plus 30 mins ab work out an HIIT?So do I have to take Whey and before this training?

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  134. Martin, love the site. Quick question, you said supplements work better in the fasted state, or I think I read that...but does taking fish oil and vit e count as breaking the fast? I don't eat till 12-1pm and only allow a 6-8 hour feeding window... But I do like a splash of cream in my coffee and I know there are calories in fish oil/ vit e.

    Would love your thoughts. I am a primal blueprinter trying to lean out my last 10 pounds..and I LOVE DAILY IFs.

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  135. Hey i just read you're article and was wondering, if i don't have BCAA only whey protein, should i take it before cardio after a 14-16 hour fast? Because you point out that one of the main reason's this helps get to the stubborn fat is the lack of insulin, but whey protein spike's insulin. The way I read the article made it seem like you want BCAA/Whey before weight training. How about medium intensity cardio?

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  136. Mark, great post.

    I have a question about incorporating this for a more competitive athlete. I am an Olympic lifter, and I currently train six days a week. All of my workout days are fairly high volume with regular PR attempts.

    In this system, would I still incorporate the high protein/moderate carb/low fat on all of my workout days?

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  137. Hi Martin,

    Any use of stimulants such as E/C or yohimbine (if you can tolerate it well) pre-workout? Could they help mobilize the fat even more or are they better used on cardio/non-workout days?

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  138. I was reading your article about "Intermittent Fasting and Stubborn Body Fat". You suggest taking yohimbe in 12mg increments but the pills I found come in 400Mg or more. For my weight, Id take around 22.4mg but still, a small amount compared to 400mg. How do you take such small amounts?

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  139. Sorry about the previous comment, I understand now. Its Yohimbine we're talking about here. The same pill I was talking about has 400 mg of "yohimbe", has 8mg of "Yohimbine", which it already close to what you're talking about.

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  140. I have starting IF but I am not sure how many calories i should eat a day. I am 5'7 and weigh 150 pounds. If i want to loose stubborn fat how many calories should i take in a day?

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  141. Hi Martin

    Just on the endurance fitness topic - Is IF suitable for half marathon to marathon training schedules?

    I'm going to try IF for a month and starting to read Eat Stop Eat. Your blog is most informative

    Thanks

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  142. Hey Martin,
    One question. How long would it take for a person at 10.5% - 11% bodyfat to hit <10% following your recomp (maintenace cals +20%/-20%) protocol?
    It would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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  143. Hey Martin, I know you say that HIIT is not a good idea in fasted state, however, what if I feel I could get a 20 minute session in after my workout? Assuming the "intensity" is there throughout.. HIIT releases more GH, and in combo w/ the fasted state, wouldn't that be double the benefit?

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  144. So if one was to follow LG protocol, would it be better to do fasted strength training (via your guidielines Martin) or low intensity cardio then do the other later in the day after feeding?

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  145. I'm curious about the fasted weight training. Are there any studies about the difference in release of Cortisol from fasted weight training as opposed to carbed weight training?

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  146. Hi! very interesting. If I were to add this to my training and diet regime how many day's per week should this be added ?

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  147. I AM LOVING IF! Thanks Martin! This summer in Texas I went from 208 to 198 lbs by doing intense cardio in the 110 degree sun. Not fun but thought I made decent progress. Then I discovered IF. I have gone from 198 to 178 in about 8 weeks! My goal is to be under 10% body fat for the first time in my life, which should be at around 165 lbs. I can SEE it coming for first time ever! I am doing the big three exercises and strength is slowly improving. I hope to maintain low body fat from that point on and gain about 20 lbs in muscle by the summer of 2013 or sooner if possible. I just turned 43 and have never felt more positive about my health. Thanks again Martin!
    Ron

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  148. In your 4th stubborn fat strategy (Fasted Weight Training), you suggest the following: immediately after heaving lifting, "take 0.2 mg yohimbine and do 30-45 min of steady state cardio". Is "0.2 mg" a typo for "0.2 mg/kg"? The former seems too small of a dose for an 80 kg male.

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  149. I'm currently under 10% bf (9% last time I checked a few months ago) and am very lean. If it wasn't for the stubborn lower ab fat, I'd be VERY satisfied with my body right now. But it just won't go away, which is why I'm starting IF this week.

    My question is though is whether I should approach IF with a cut or bulk? Like I said, I'm very lean to the point that I'm for sure under 10% bf, but I want to get SHREDDED abs. Should I cut or bulk with IF?

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  150. Great post

    I'm really new to this approach and loving it.

    I train fasted and drink 10g BCAA pre w/o as suggested, but I also drink it during my workout in my water bottle. Is this ok? Or does this hinder or compromise fat loss?

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  151. I love this post. But I have a few questions. I'm currently in training for the Army and my schedule is much different than most people. Here's a basic list of what I do and when I do it.
    0400: wake up
    0500: Physical Training
    0630: eat
    0800-1130: Classes(sitting down/ in a laboratory)
    1130-1300: eat
    1300-1630: more classes
    1630-1730: Formation and briefings
    1800: eat
    2100: bedtime

    How can I use Intermittent Fasting into my routine? I was thinking the fasting period would be from 6pm to lunch the next day, but I have physical training in the morning. Any suggestions would be great!!! :D

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  152. I have a complicated military schedule that may interfere with my hopes of IF. I was going to fast from 6pm to 12pm the next day, but I have physical training in the morning. Is that OK? or should I do the IF at a different time? I appreciate the help.

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  153. Great reading Martin, quick question with all of people's posts of body fat, what is the most practical way to measure body fat?

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  154. This was a great post. I myself have recently just started intermittent fasting and let me tell you it is real and it works. I weighed in Jan. of this year at 168 lbs. and 13.5% bf, as of today Feb. 29, I weighed in again and my current weight is 167 lbs. and 8.5 % bf. I have seen no decrease in strength in fact I have gotten stronger each workout and I have only been participating in intermittent fasting for a week. I am only 20 yrs old and have tried so many different ways of burning fat I have tried virtually every thing out there the 6 meals a day all of it, but this is something I found that finally works. Thank you Mark Berkhan

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  155. Great post Martin. I have been experimenting with IF and would love to fully incorporate a plan. My schedule is unique and am wondering how I should structure the day.

    I co-own a small fitness club in Hilo, HI and I have the opening shift. Therefore, I wake up between 3am-4am and can be at the gym any time before I open it up at 5:00am. Depending on my schedule I get to bed between 7pm-8pm.

    I typically, if my schedule does not get interrupted, train at 6:00am.

    Would love your input as how to scheduled my day.

    Thank you for your input.

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  156. Can I take Yohimbine and go back to sleep?:
    7am take Yohimbine, go back to sleep
    9am wake up take Yohimbine start day/walk
    is it possible to go back to sleep or the Yohimbine will wire me up making it not possible to get those last 2 hours of rest? Thanks in advance for your time.

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  157. Hi Martin, I am 78kgs and around 16% bodyfat... I have no idea how many calories i need to eat in total.. i will do the first protocol trained while fasting and post workout meal will be the first.. but can you please help in terms of calories..

    thanks

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  158. Grate post.I really like this post!!I've read a few similar posts recently but I don't think I've ever read one that so perfectly expresses my own opinions on the matter.

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  159. Grate post.I really like this post!!I've read a few similar posts recently but I don't think I've ever read one that so perfectly expresses my own opinions on the matter.

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  160. i've lost 60 pounds with fasted weight training and caffeine. if you have any questions my email is seansaal@hotmail.com

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  161. what success have you had with clients who have significant visceral fat - low subcutaneous fat but with a pot belly?

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  162. what success have you had with clients who have significant visceral fat? i have fairly low subcutaneous fat, but a stubborn pot belly. not a good combo...

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  163. Martin,

    I don't understand why you recommend such a significant difference of yohimbine in each of your scenarios. The first has a total of 32 mg and the second (with heavy weight training at 10 AM) has a total of .2 mg??

    Is there a problem with supplementing yohimbine before or after heavy weight training? Should I keep it to off days?

    Thank you in advance.

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  164. Question: How much time would you say you have saved getting ripped by taking the yohimbine compared to not taking it? How fast does it speed the process? Thanks.

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  165. Thanks Martin.
    I really like your blog so I decided to give a bit of donation.

    I just started this intermittent fasting a week ago after reading the Renegade Diet of Jason Ferruggia to lose belly fat.

    I have a question. I stop eating at 8.00 PM, and start eating again between 12.00 and 1.00 pm the next day. So I fast for 16 to 17 hours.
    I play tennis for 1 hour and half. I play singles with a friend. I play quite competitively. Can I eat a banana during the play?

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  166. im sorry if this has already been covered in other comments, i didn't seem to notice it anywhere but....

    so according to lyle when u do fasted cardio and yohimbine u should wait at least and hour or so to eat....while doing the fasted training then cardio routine here it looks like its ok to eat immediately after...is there any specific reason for this? yohimbine is still as effective when not waiting?

    thanks

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  167. Martin, you re awesome,
    My question....
    A 40g protein chicken breast and 20g of casein can last for 16hr of fast, and still have amino in my bloodstream?

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  168. hey martin
    heard intermittent fasting increases HGH output.
    now i wanna ask :
    does hgh increase with absence of insulin or absence of anything in stomach?
    like would black,sugarless coffee or stunt HGH output?

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  169. What is the BF% of the shredded dude pic in your post ?

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  170. hi i was wondering if i can take 4 doses of GNC yohmibe 451? Each capsule contains 9mg of yohimbine.

    I fast from 12am until 530pm.

    Please let me know thanks

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  171. This may have been covered in a previous post, but will this program work if your workout is after work? Mine is typically 6pm-7pm. Meaning my eating phase would be from 7:30pm-3:30am. Now I dont know about you, but I dont want to wake up at 3:30am and eat my last meal. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for this type of schedule?

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  172. Hey Martin, was wondering if it was okay to substitute pre WO BCAA using whey? Thanks

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  173. Question. I had a period of cutting and i managed to reach 5-6% body fat (body calipers and various different formulas and ways of measuring body fat confirmed it), although i still had that fat layer around my lower abs. My stomach looked like you in the modeling days except a lot more ripped in the upper 2 abdominal muscles and slightly more ripped in the lower abs. Do i have problem with stubborn fat or are the calipers plain wrong and i should cut down EVEN MORE in order for it to show ?

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  174. Hi. Great reading. I am curious to know what you would recommend if bcaa is not an option(student on a budget) thus still wanting to train fasted? What I have done so far is 30g whey protein pre-workout and eating a high carb low fat meal with plenty of protein right aften.

    So basicly, what can I improve in my routine above?

    Thanks in advance.

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  175. I usually work out in the afternoon around 4 pm. Fasting from 9pm to 1pm. Do you think working out in the fasting period would get me better results?

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  176. Hey, i think this is a very informative post, but it may be slightly too detailed and complex for casual readers who wish to seriously lose some weight. Nevertheless, great post

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  177. So glad I've found this website! This is the first time I've found some explanations to a lifestyle I've already been following. I unknowingly have been using intermittent fasting as a part of my Isagenix lifestyle, but I always wondered why the fasting aspect was necessary... Now I fully understand why the lifestyle works! Thanks!!!

    Brian Mulligan
    brianjmulligan@me.com

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  178. If I were to run for an hour in a fasted state, should I do so towards the end of my fast so that I eat as soon as I finish.? What would happen if I ran and then carried on fasting for another 3 hours? Most websites state that you should refuell within the hour after training?

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